[Date Prev][Date Next][Thread Prev][Thread Next]
LOOP / Caps / Haul direction
- Subject: LOOP / Caps / Haul direction
- Date: Mon, 09 Nov 2009 13:05:57 -0500
Walter & Group...
REMINDER: We are still looking for the
missing Winter 2003 issue of the LOOP.
If you find it in your records or collections,
please notify Editor Denise Maxwell at : goldnwst@xxxxxxxxx
From Lefty Kreh :
Gordy--many years ago at my casting seminars I would had people cast to
a target with the long billed hat that so many NE striper fishermen used to
wear---and then with a baseball-type cap brim.
distances the long bill didn't make much difference. But with distance casts
(more than about 40 feet) they were consistently less accurate wearing the long
My reasoning is
that I think we monitor the fly line as it unrolls toward the target. A long
bill hat prevent us from seeing the fly line unrolling during a portion of its
While it has
little to do with casting I also think you see more fish when sight
fishing wearing a rather short billed cap--and it doesn't blow off your
head as quickly when underway in a boat. In short, I see no advantage to wearing
a long bill hat--a personal opinion of course.
I agree. Back when we used those long
billed caps, we had to tie a line from it to our necks since they blew off so
I think some of those were "wanna-be" great
striper fishermen who needed to look the part. The surf casters throwing
hardware all used them and it carried over to the surf fly fishermen several
We unconciously do use the timing of the
forward unrolling loop, not just for accuracy, but as a basis for the timing for
the unseen back cast loop when false
From Ally Gowans :
Your observations re
haul direction are exactly the same as mine. Now try to imagine a haul with a
two?handed rod and but of course since hauling is impossible imitate the haul by
moving the bottom hand, accelerating like a haul to a stop. Move the bottom hand
exactly in a ?straight? line directly away from a target and you will be
surprised at how accurate you can become.
This of course is good
practice for hauling with a single handed rod, pull exactly opposite the target.
In this case the rod hand will be pointing towards the target so an axial haul
results anyway for a closed stance. For an open stance caster this may involve
some parallax but I don?t think that matters if the haul is opposite the target
it seems to work. And it works for all casts.
Young salmon eat the
same diet as young trout, smolts obviously have to adjust to sea feeding and
that is one of the reasons that sandeels and other coastal foods are important
because a shortage leads to high mortality in the immediate post smolt
.... You have introduced the concept of making the pull of the line
hand and/or that of the bottom hand (when two handed casting) in line directly
with the target. Never thought of it that
There?s a very good
reason that you witnessed curved layouts when you made your hauls significantly
to the side, Gordy. If you pay particular attention to the axial
orientation of the rod blank when you make the haul (you?ll have to have someone
else watch it or video tape it ? you?ll have a hard time seeing it yourself as
the caster), you?ll see that your haul is causing torque at the stripper and the
blank rotates very much like the rotational wrist break that we intentionally
make when making a vertical curve cast. The rod has initially been loaded
in plane with the guides, then the blank is rotated and then rapidly unloaded ?
OUT OF PLANE with the intended direction of the loop. This creates a small
amount of horizontal centrifugal momentum in one direction or the other and can
only tell the loop to finish unrolling in that direction.
Have you ever read or
heard an accurate explanation of precisely how an overhead curve cast works?
I ask you because I am NOT a reader and I know that you are a great
one. I haven?t ever heard anyone even attempt to explain how it works, but
I have my theory (above).
Troy.... I think your description of
what happened is correct. You have also described one way of making a
powered curve cast.
When I did this by exaggerating the direction of
the haul, I also moved the rod a bit to the haul side. This is another way of
making a curve cast .... to finish the cast so that the rod tip is traveling to
the right or left as the rod reaches RSP. I see that as the way of making
all powered ("positive") curve casts. This happens when we either twist or
move the rid tip in a lateral direction as the cast is
Even as the "Corkscrew" curve cast is made, the
rod tip reaches RSP traveling in the direction one wants the fly to go. I
use that one for curves placed way out there .... and loooooong curves.
I'm reasonably sure this one uses both rod torque and lateral thrust
The underpowered curve cast is very
different. Here, the caster makes an incomplete loop to the side by
starting the cast and then moving the rod with negative acceleration. Of
course, this one won't travel around a tree, rock or any other obstruction and
is much more difficult to control when its windy.
An easy to understand description of the curve
cast in plain words is to be found starting on p 109 of Lefty Kreh's CASTING
WITH LEFTY KREH.
Another basic description is found on p. 171 of
Mac Brown's CASTING ANGLES.
From Don Pendleton :
After practicing the hauling direction this afternoon. The more
totally open stance you have it becomes much smoother to keep the haul moment
"closer" to rod plane. A longer smoothly accelerated haul at the proper
time seems to keep the rod tip tracking better and the line leg straighter when
your body is in an open stance.
Don... Yes. It is much
easier to achieve a haul length matched to the amount of line carried when the
movement of the line hand is close to the casting plane (rod plane). This
is particularly true when making long casts. As I stated, yesterday, I
also found that when I hauled way out to the side, away from this plane, I had
trouble maintaining control of acceleration.
From Gary Davison:
Wanted to run this by you.
I was thinking about the haul and the possible
angles when implemented.
I was trying to relate the haul action to a similar analogy
in fly fishing that everyone can relate to, and I came up with
When fighting a fish on a fly rod we tell our students to maintain the
90 degree rule. The butt of the rod at a 90 degree angle to the
fish. The optimum position for applying pressure when fighting a fish
so not to loose the fish or break the rod.
We teach that as you lower the rod tip and point it at the fish , you
are applying more pressure on the fish and line. If you point your rod tip
directly at the fish you will most likely break off, because in most cases you
have applied so much pressure that you have exceeded the tippet strength.
That straight line path with out any interference caused this excessive
force resulting in failure of the line.
This holds true with the Haul as well. Our goal is to administer
as much force to the line as possible. If you can administer
a straight line pull on the line which is parallel with the rod on
your haul. Then you are applying the most direct force to the
line, This will result in optimum line speed.
I know major physics comes into play as your angle changes away from
straight line pull on the line. But to keep it simple, this
analogy seems to make sense to me.
All the best
Gary... I hadn't thought of that analogy. May help some
folks. A bit of a stretch for others.
do prefer to think of administering efficiently delivered smoothly applied force
to the line sufficient to complete the cast rather than "as much force to the
line as possible" for most casts.
While I do agree that the term "force" has well understood
meaning as an engineering and physics term I think you'll agree that
it sometimes leads to inappropriate application of power when used in teaching
some fly casting students.
max distance casting, I can't disagree that the application of as much force to
the line as one can achieve while maintaining smooth, constant acceleration is a